Happy New Year all.

I’ve seen these a couple of times and it’s got me thinking – how much sympathy should we give freelancers who receive these? If any! (This was not sent to me, BTW)

I’m quite sure these are not common otherwise we would have had a deluge of NO REASON posts about them. Instead, there’s been a smattering, at least from what I can tell.

What do you think triggers them? Of course, we can expect them to be initiated by terrible private feedback. However, even in its current dysfunctional state, Upwork will be aware of the bounty of asshole clients and consider this in their algorithms. The person who posted this claimed the contract was with a new Upwork but I have no idea how true or otherwise that is. I can’t help but think these would only be triggered by poor feedback from established clients with a history of giving positive feedback.

Any insights? I’ve no juicy facts to get into, sorry; purely idle speculation.

    • RRavi

    • Post #2
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    I remember a case where a freelancer had a very positive feedback history, but just one unhappy client resulted in this kind of a warning.

      Ravi

      And you think the freelancer was fully open in their retelling of the incident?

        • Petra

        • Post #4

        Ravi

        I remember a case where a freelancer had a very positive feedback history, but just one unhappy client resulted in this kind of a warning.

        EVERY freelancer who has a poor outcome gets this.

        When there are more, they lose their ability to apply for and accept new contracts for a minimum of 6 months, and can only work on existing contracts.

            • Petra

            • Post #5

            DuncanThePig

            I’m quite sure these are not common otherwise we would have had a deluge of NO REASON posts about them.

            I've seen plenty of posts.

            What do you think triggers them?

            Every poor outcome automatically triggers one of those. Repeated poor outcome(s) then trigger the real shocker where the freelancer loses the ability to apply for or accept new contracts, and I've seen quite a few of those too.

            Upwork will be aware of the bounty of asshole clients and consider this in their algorithms.

            Only if the client's feedback is excluded from the freelancer's JSS (client has a history of bad outcomes or is suspended).

            I can’t help but think these would only be triggered by poor feedback from established clients with a history of giving positive feedback.

            Nope, any client (unless excluded as above)

                Petra

                Any idea "how" bad the feedback would have to be?

                    • RRavi

                    • Post #8
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                    Petra EVERY freelancer who has a poor outcome gets this.

                    They shouldn't.

                        • Petra

                        • Post #9
                        • Edited

                        Ravi Whyever not?

                        Do you expect Upwork to investigate every poor outcome?

                        • Ravi replied to this.

                            • RRavi

                            • Post #10
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                            Petra
                            No.
                            But if the freelancer has good history, Upwork shouldn't jump at one bad outcome.
                            Does Upwork even consider that the bad feedback might be unfair?

                                • RRavi

                                • Post #11
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                                Petra
                                A hair trigger.

                                  • Petra

                                  • Post #12
                                  • Edited

                                  Ravi

                                  Ultimately, this is only a warning at this stage. Nothing happens until this repeats itself too much.

                                  Remember Upwork is drowning in freelancers and needs to attract and keep paying clients.

                                  Poor outcomes piss off clients and pissed off clients will use the site next.

                                  Does Upwork even consider that the bad feedback might be unfair?

                                  If people are careful when choosing clients, "unfair" poor feedback will be relatively rare.
                                  There are safeguards in place when a client has a history of poor outcomes. Feedback from such clients is excluded from the JSS calculation and would not trigger that email.

                                  It's really all not that dramatic.

                                  A hair trigger.

                                  Huh?

                                    Trying to imagine how this might impact me which, I think, is probably not at all.

                                    Looking back I've had a couple of bad outcomes that might have triggered the first letter. But I can't think of a time when I would have had two in 6 months. I also have fewer contracts nowadays, making it even less likely I'll be impacted.

                                    As long as it's applied even then it's all good with me. It may even help to think out the competition which I am definitely all for.

                                      • Petra

                                      • Post #14

                                      DuncanThePig

                                      But I can't think of a time when I would have had two in 6 months. I also have fewer contracts nowadays, making it even less likely I'll be impacted.

                                      Exactly.

                                      It's high time Upwork does something to thin out the herd. This is as good a way as any as far as I am concerned.

                                        Ravi

                                        Ravi Does Upwork even consider that the bad feedback might be unfair?

                                        I think the main thing to bear in mind is that it applies to everybody, making it entirely fair. We're all in the same boat. It's true that somebody could get unlucky with a bad client for the first letter, but it's much harder to use that argument if one triggers it again within 6 months,

                                        The more I think about this the more I think I like it even if I do trigger the letter occasionally.

                                            • RRavi

                                            • Post #16
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                                            Thinning out the herd would be great.
                                            But jumping at a single bad feedback is excessive.
                                            One quick scan of the profiles and the history of freelancers is all it would take to thin out the herd.

                                              Ravi

                                              Ravi But jumping at a single bad feedback is excessive.

                                              But it isn't doing that. It takes TWO bad outcomes to trigger the temporary ban. Not one.

                                              Nowhere in the letter does it say the freelancer's ability to send proposals has been blocked.

                                              • Ravi replied to this.

                                                    • RRavi

                                                    • Post #18
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                                                    DuncanThePig
                                                    Not sure.
                                                    In the case I am referring to, the freelancer did not mention that, only that he'd had a string a good feedbacks.
                                                    Do you mean two bad ones all togther or after some specific date?
                                                    As the forums are closed, there is no way to go back and check.

                                                        • Petra

                                                        • Post #19

                                                        Ravi

                                                        It takes one bad outcome to trigger the email. The email is just that. An email. Nothing to get all excited about.

                                                        It takes more than one in a short period of time to trigger the further sanctions.

                                                        A string of good feedback" can be 5 for small jobs, and most clients give 5 stars and 10s in private by default anyway.

                                                          • Petra

                                                          • Post #20

                                                          Ravi

                                                          Thinning out the herd would be great.
                                                          But jumping at a single bad feedback is excessive.

                                                          NOTHING happens after one poor outcome other than an email.

                                                          One quick scan of the profiles and the history of freelancers is all it would take to thin out the herd.

                                                          What do you mean?

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